Transcript: Interview with Hamid Karzai

Q: Where is Afghanistan going to end up in a few years? There have been dramatic swings in this country, from a prosperous hippie haven a generation ago to the Taliban disaster. What is your vision of what Afghanistan should look like?

A: A country with democracy, a country where people vote to elect their governments. A country without oppression or repression. A country with a developed economy, with a clean government, proper accountability.

Q: How far can you get in the next 18 months as your new government runs the country while also preparing for national elections?

A: We will begin the process. It may not end in 18 months. Nation-building is not an easy task. It takes time. What I want is a balanced development in all aspects. So in 18 months, some work will be completed, some work will not be completed. Some work will be completed sooner than 18 months. Other parts of the world may continue to be there (contributing) for many, many years before we have the result. It's a process with many sides.

Q: Competing interests put pressures on you. The West has one vision, conservative Muslims here have another. How do you bridge that gap?

A: Well, the West has not really offered a vision, in terms of politics, to Afghanistan. The West has offered help. And the Afghan people understand that and respect that. That help is vital for Afghanistan.

The future shape of the country is a decision of the Afghan people. And in that decision they displayed quite clear messages in the loya jirga (the just-finished meeting of leaders from around the country that formed the new government and elected Karzai president).

They want a central authority. They want a united country. They want an end to fiefdoms and warlordism. They want development. They want education. And those are all good signs.

But of course Afghanistan is a Muslim country. A traditional society. All of that is asked for within the framework of Afghan social and religious values.

Q: The topic of traditional Islamic law was discussed and endorsed during the loya jirga. Are we again going to see arms getting cut off in the Olympic Stadium?

A: No (chuckling). Why that?

Q. Because that is the Western image of traditional Islamic law, which was practiced by the Taliban.

A: But the Taliban were not representing Islam. Why do people go from one extreme to another extreme? There's always a middle ground. Life is made through thinking and common sense and moderation. No extremes make societies.

Q: Afghan warlords have taken prominent positions in your new administration. How does that fit with your goal to end warlordism?

A: We have offered all Afghans, warlords or no warlords, to be part of the nation-building in Afghanistan. And there is an opportunity for them to come and participate, and go down in Afghan history as good people. They also have the choice to go the other way around – and go into the Afghan history as bad people.

Any good, sane man will choose the path of goodness and of service to this country and of getting the good name in the future. There is this opportunity and I wish everybody would take it.

What I don't want is war in this country. What I don't want is fighting in this country. What I don't want is the rights of Afghan people violated in this country. So if I can bring a man with a military force, with a regional structure into the government and make him cooperate, that is a good thing, that will not be a bad thing. That is in the interest of the country.

Q: Is there another country that you see as a model for development and maintaining tradition?

A: Malaysia. What other country? Well, Egypt. Lots of countries. Japan – yeah, could we? Japan. A country that kept its traditions and values and yet leaped forward as the most developed country now. Turkey, for (another) example.

Q: Do you think there's a risk of going the way of Iran, which has a moderate government but with the power still in the hands of Islamic radicals?

A: No, Afghan society is a different society. We have different social structures.

Q. How so?

A: It would take a lot of time (to explain). It's just different.

Q: But here there's still an awful lot of power held by the Mullahs, who, for example, brought great pressure upon your former Minister of Women's Affairs and called her a bad Muslim.

A: That is not going the path of Iran. This is an Islamic society and we must respect our values and our social structures.

With regard to minister Sima Samar, what was written about her in the newspapers was fabrication. I asked her. She spoke to me about this. It was total fabrication. It was lies. And she denied it. She is a good Muslim. She believes in our values and our religious virtues and social values. She has helped this country in the past very much in the times of our war against the Soviet Union and afterwards. And that's why she has the most important job now in this regard – she's the commission for human rights in Afghanistan.

And I just told her the other day to launch an inquiry into any intimidation (of delegates) during the preparations for the loya jirga and while the loya jirga was going on.

Q: How long do you think that you'll need military assistance from ISAF (the international security force in Kabul) or the United States?

A: Well, the Afghan people want that kind of a presence in Afghanistan, of the ISAF forces, of the allied forces. For as long as we need this country to fight terrorism, to fight warlordism, to fight anarchy and, until we have our own institutions, national institutions – a national army, a national intelligence, national police and so on.

Q: Five years, 10 years?

A: I can't give a time. There's no time frame. It's the job that has to be done, not the time that has to be completed.

Q: There are some leaders who like to foment anti-foreigner feelings in the population here. That leads the west to worry about when Afghans will turn on them, just as Afghanistan turned on the British and the Russians in the past. Will it happen again?

A: No. With the kind of help the West has given to Afghanistan, the West has liberated Afghanistan once again. It helped us when we were fighting the Soviet Union it helped us again when we were fighting terrorism. The Afghan people recognize that help and support it very much. People come and tell me this on a daily basis.

Q: What about Afghan anger because of Western troops being insensitive, treating Afghans badly and violating their civil rights?

A: Well, people have to be treated properly and they are treated properly. There are a few incidents that happened by mistake. We must try to limit the occurrence of such incidents. Otherwise, things are going quite nicely.

Q: You talk a lot about rebuilding the roads in Afghanistan. Is this most important as an effort to unite the country?

A: No. (But) roads have to be there for all purposes. People need to travel, and they must travel comfortably. Transportation must be there, freight, cargo, everything.

Q: What can Afghanistan do, economically, to get itself back on its feet? What sources of income are there?

A: Customs (duties), our underground resources – minerals, mines, gas, trade, transit, agriculture, fruits.

Q: Is there one part that is picking up most quickly?

A: Yes. Especially our fruits and agriculture and customs. And if the (natural gas) pipeline project comes, that part.

Q: Do you feel that you have more influence now, with the endorsement of the loya jirga?

A: Yes. Sure. It stems from the legitimacy that I have. And you must respond to that legitimacy. People want change. They voted for me because they want change. And we must respect that.